"Anonymous. Propulsion comes from the knee and thigh of the standing leg. Anne Lewis several times British Champion.

No, you - and Anne if she actually said this - are mistaken.

The primary propulsion comes from gravity. In coordinated dancing, you try to maintain your energy level as constant as possible, and preserve it by converting it between potential energy of rise, and kinetic energy of movement.

There's a specific relationship between body speed and altitude that needs to be followed for efficient dancing. Lower below this curve, and you are wasting effort. Rise above it and you are wasting effort.

As a result, the correct rise and fall (and knee bend) is not absolute, but can only be determined in the context of the body speed (travel per unit of musical time) you hope to achieve.

If you simply copy the rise and fall of a championship dancer without also achieving their body speed, you are making a serious mistake - you are not dancing like them at all, because the fundamental proportion at the heart of their dancing has been broken in yours. On the other hand, if you both lower less and move less, then you could actually be dancing the same way as the champion, because you have the same relationships in your dancing as are at the heart of theirs - only the scale is smaller in yours.

Anonymous. I can assure you that Anne Lewis said that Propulsion comes from the knee and the thigh. There must be a few out there that have the same tape that I have. I would agree that we sometimes fall into a trap of using too big a step trying to get distance. I doubt that too much lowering would be the problem. To get back to body flight. If I leap from one stepping stone to another. I think I would bend my supporting knee and push. I believe my foot would lead off. I believe my foot would arrive with a knee that was slightly flexed. As I landed before my other foot arrived I would bend my knee as my body arrived over it acting as a cushion. The body flight must come from the propulsion of the standing foot which propels all of me. If I tried to move my body first I would never make it. So it is my opinion that the movement of the body is a natural movement. But teaching somebody who was dragging themself along with their front leg. To tell them to get there body weight moving might be the way to go. Otherwiose I would leave them alone as long as they pushed off the standing foot.

"I can assure you that Anne Lewis said that Propulsion comes from the knee and the thigh."

Well, she's wrong. She's a dancer, not a physiologist.

"I doubt that too much lowering would be the problem."

Lowering unmatched by proportional horizontal movement usually implies breaking the body position and invading the partner's space. Also, lowering unmatched by horizontal excelleration means energy is wasted rather than conserved by conversion from potential to kinetic.

"To get back to body flight. If I leap from one stepping stone to another. I think I would bend my supporting knee and push."

If you leap, sure. But that's not a ballroom movement. Ballroom movement does not have rise and fall cycling per step, it has it cycling over a series of steps. The closest thing in ballroom would be various quickstep tricks, but even then is quite different from stepping stones.

"I believe my foot would lead off."

I sure hope not! Outside of tango, everything is body-first.

"The body flight must come from the propulsion of the standing foot which propels all of me."

You are confusing body flight with body speed. Body speed can come from the legs, yes. But body flight is the body speed remaining from the previous step - it is what you already had before you used your legs. If your motion is not continous across the steps, such that your body would keep moving even without leg action, then you do not have body flight.

"If I tried to move my body first I would never make it."

Ironic, as that's the only acceptable way to dance the swing dances!

Suomynona. I think we will both agree that at the extent of our stride we will have our front toe off the floor and our back heel off the floor with our weight dead center suspended momentarily. Turn to the side whilst still in that position you will now be with your feet apart and the weight where it should be ,right in the middle. Question is, is it the push off the rear foot that is carrying the weight to the new standing foot. Just to make it clearer. The foot from a standing position . The ball of the foot is in contact with the floor for about seven inches. It becomes a heel and the propulsion from the standing foot pushes it to the extent of our stride where we arrive as said before. On the heel of the front foot the knee straightish, and the toe of the rear foot, also straight. The length of the stride with most will be the width of a 36 inch door frame. At that point we will be right in the middle. If you can find in any technique book any difference to the above feel free to quote.

"Suomynona. I think we will both agree that at the extent of our stride we will have our front toe off the floor and our back heel off the floor with our weight dead center suspended momentarily. Turn to the side whilst still in that position you will now be with your feet apart and the weight where it should be ,right in the middle."

Absolutely not. The weight must be much closer to the front foot. Remember that it's almost unheard of to take such a step in actual dancing (the only time you would fully develop the leg division) sqaure to the body. It essentially always has a same side lead, or features CBM which will create an opposite side lead by the tim you reach the extent of the stride. This is part of what requires your weight to be closer to the front foot.

"Question is, is it the push off the rear foot that is carrying the weight to the new standing foot."

Absolutely not. It is mostly the body flight which existed before the action of the step even commenced. The additional body speed due to pushing off the standing foot plays a smaller role.

A lot of these are things you unfortunatley will probably never learn unless you study with one of the top, traditional british coaches.

Suomynona. I still think flighting the body is a heap of rubbish. Now swing is different because in the Standard style of dancing we are always going sideways. I doubt that on any step we are stepping without a left or right shoulder lead. So consiquently we always progress sideways which is swing. Even more in the V. Waltz. Could it be that body flight is being confused with swing. Another example would be stick your shoes to the floor. Stand in them and move your body forward. I can tell you exactly what will happen. Your foot will try to go ahead of your body. In the shoes they can't, so you fall flat on your face. Also to move your body first will cause you to go away from that beautifull clean look that we have if we carry our body verticlly across the floor. And if you don't think that at sometime your body is not right in the middle of our stride I would ask you how can it not be. If you think not I would ask you what colour is the sky on your planet?.

I had a question here, even you are on your standing foot with flexed knee ,drawing a half circle from front to the rear, but when someone steps backward, a sliding distance >/= half foot added. Is the answer is that the circumference moving with us resulting from the circumstance created by our upper limbs and trunks . at this point , no stride beyond the circle for given reflexed knee ? I was still not understanding why it helped to understand dancing ?
ylchen

Yichin. Waltz. Some of us try to step to far, usually to our front or to our side ,very rarely do we step to our full extent going backwards. The excercise it to give some idea of how far we are capable of going. The more the knee bends , the further you are able to go. Stand up straight and your distance is drastically reduced. This you would expect from a beginner. The energy stored in the bent knee of the standing leg will give the propulsion needed to reach your maximim with comfort. Try the pointing to find your distance with the knee bent. Measure it. Then try by taking a step forward or to the side and measure that also. You will find that coming off the rear foot will increase the distance we can travell foward by about 10 inches. Going to the side is different it will not alter vey much if we are to control our balance and are able to lower correctly. I guess thats why the driving step is always a step forward and the side step a swinging step.You will find that about the width of a 36 inch door frame is getting towards our limits in any direction.

this thread is outrageous nonsense. the size of the step is deteremined by how much the body moves, period. if you bend your knee, you must move the body a corresponding amount.

Anonymous. I'm no super athelete. But I can bend my knee and point my foot in any direction and still stay dead center.
Written up above, if you are the same person. You couldn't be more wrong when you said something about the side step comes from momentum and not from the standing leg. Why do you, or who bend the supporting knee. And what happens then. I hope you are also not one of those who forgets the sway on three.